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SWLiP

1.Bush invaded Afghanistan, Haiti, and Iraq

Bush invaded Haiti?

2.Bush, as leader of the united states, has more WMD than the entire world.

So what? I don't worry about Western, democratically elected governments having WMD, and neither does anyone else. What worries is unaccountable, terrorist-supporting dictators having WMD, and possible giving them to terrorists to wage assymetrical warfare on the democratic countries.

I keep challenging Lefties to come up with an example of a democratic nation attacking another democratic nation. So far, they've come up empty.

3.Bush has never acknowledged the UN, Kofi Annan declared his invasion of Iraq illegal.

Heh. Who cares? Kofi Annan also unilaterally voided an internal sexual harassment investigation, and Kofi Annan oversaw the Oil for Food program, which has turned out to be the biggest corruption scandal in the history of the UN, and perhaps the world.

4.As for oil, I have no proof only speculation so I will remain silent.

Why wait for proof? Of course it was ALL ABOUT OIIILLLL!

5.What would Bush do if the UN came knocking on his door to inspect his weapons stockpiles?

They are not Bush's weapons stockpiles, but the United States of America's stockpiles. They are openly declared for strategic purposes, and moreover the UN Security Council has not passed any sanctions against the United States requiring inspections.

You see, because we have a democracy, the security apparatus of the United States belongs to no man, but to the People. Saddam's weapons, on the other hand, were claimed by him for preservation of his illegitimate regime.

You may notice the difference if Kerry wins the election, because Bush will concede power peacefully.

Chris

Bush Invaded Haiti - The Bush Family has a long history or ‘restoring democracy’ in Haiti. In 1994 Haiti was invaded, and democracy was ‘restored’ (an interesting point on this invasion, it was the first time that the United States Obtained UN approval for an invasion). Recently The US re-entered Haiti, again with the UN, to restore democracy. Interesting that that was the hospice of their mission, Haiti had a democratic government at the time.

WMD- North Korea has nuclear weapons, they told the world this, and they will show you if you ask them, why didn’t the US invade them (as a side note, they are not a democratic country either). Saddam said he had no WMD, How many WMD did they find? Interesting it looks like Saddam told the truth.

Kofi or no Kofi- the fact of the matter is that the United States continues to ignore the UN, with the above noted exception of course. I find it interesting that a Country so Hell bent on providing Peace and Security has so little regard for an institution developed to provide on a global scale; Peace and Security, Economic and Social Development, enforce human rights, Humanitarian affairs, and the maintenance of international law.

Yes it is all about Oil - You can not deny this. There may have been other reasons for attacking Iraq, dictatorships and WMD aside, but oil was definitely in the equation. How much Oil does North Korea produce?
Iraq - WMD + Dictatorship + Oil = invasion
N Korea - WMD + Dictatorship + NO oil = no action

How would you like it-I was never arguing whether WMD stockpiled by the US were legal or not, I think that it may be a little excessive, but I would have to say…as leftist as I may seem, if some one has to have WMD, I would rather it be my neighbor, than a country with unaligned ideals. My point was, put your self in his situation. That is the most important point anyone can stress. Americans need to place them selves in other people’s shoes; it will help them understand what is happening in the world. You as a people have the hardest time understanding how the world can hate you so much. If some one occupied your country would you not fight? If some one sold weapons to your enemies would you not consider them to be an enemy as well?

Democracy is a wonderful thing, we have enjoyed it our entire lives. If it were taken away from me I would fight for it, but that does not make it ‘right’, it does not mean that democracy is the ‘perfect’ model for all situations. By forcing your ideals and values on a country, by means of War, are you not as bad as their previous regime? Fighting communism got old, the western world realized that communism wasn’t evil, it was just different.

Acceptance and understanding would be wonderful things to bring to the world, far better than war and hate.

SWLiP

Bush Invaded Haiti . . . (extraneous crap deleted)

Haiti was descending toward civil war, and the UN practically begged us to send in the Marines to help restore order. Bush actually didn't want to send in any of our military, but did so under the proviso that other UN member states provide backup asap. It was in our interest, btw, to prevent another massive wave of refugees from that country. But it also probably saved a lot of lives in Haiti. And we all know how Lefties like saving the lives of poor, third-world types, don't we?

WMD- North Korea has nuclear weapons, they told the world this, and they will show you if you ask them, why didn’t the US invade them (as a side note, they are not a democratic country either).

Moron. We don't invade PRNK precisely because it has nukes. That's the problem. Once a rogue state gets nukes the whole strategic equation changes, and what were once bad options are reduced to almost no options.

Saddam said he had no WMD, How many WMD did they find? Interesting it looks like Saddam told the truth.

Read the Duelfer Report's Key Findings:

• The introduction of the Oil-For-Food program (OFF) in late 1996 was a key turning point for the Regime. OFF rescued Baghdad’s economy from a terminal decline created by sanctions. The Regime quickly came to see that OFF could be corrupted to acquire foreign exchange both to further undermine sanctions and to provide the means to enhance dual-use infrastructure and potential WMD-related development. • By 2000-2001, Saddam had managed to mitigate many of the effects of sanctions and undermine their international support. Iraq was within striking distance of a de facto end to the sanctions regime, both in terms of oil exports and the trade embargo, by the end of 1999.

Kofi or no Kofi- the fact of the matter is that the United States continues to ignore the UN (extraneous crap deleted)

You have no idea what you're talking about. The U.S. pretty much invented the UN, and since its founding the U.S. has been a world leader in the development of institutions of international law and international order. But the UN is a terribly, terribly corrupt, crapulent institution, held in the grip of dictators and terrorist-apologists who deny their own people the vote that they demand for themselves in the UN. Simply put, any institution that would put Libya at the chair of the Human Rights Committee and Iran on the Disarmament Committee is worse than a joke; it is a menace to world peace.

But I'll grant you the chance to score bonus points in this little discussion: Name one operation that the UN has successfully carried out in terms of disarmament or peacekeeping, ever.

Yes it is all about Oil - You can not deny this. There may have been other reasons for attacking Iraq, dictatorships and WMD aside, but oil was definitely in the equation. (extraneous crap deleted)

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, it was about oil in the strategic sense, meaning it is better for the world economy that Saudi Arabia doesn't have such a monopoly on Persian Gulf oil. But if you're saying that it was done to profit U.S. oil companies, then you are full of crap. The fact is that the oil companies had lobbied for years to end the sanctions so that they could make the same deals with Saddam that the French and the Russians were making. Now, if the war was "all about oil," why would Bush launch a costly war, in the face of international opinion, knowing full well that his "lie" about WMD would be exposed before the 2004 election, when it would have been so much cheaper and politically expedient to just end the sanctions and let his "oil buddies" make their deals? Sure, it would have taken an exercise in sophistry to justify such a turn in the wake of 9/11, but it wouldn't have been any more solopsistic than what the Left currently accuses Bush of doing.

How would you like it-I was never arguing whether WMD stockpiled by the US were legal or not, I think that it may be a little excessive, but I would have to say…as leftist as I may seem, if some one has to have WMD, I would rather it be my neighbor, than a country with unaligned ideals.

I have no idea what this means. What are "unaligned ideals" and who has them?

My point was, put your self in his situation. That is the most important point anyone can stress. Americans need to place them selves in other people’s shoes; it will help them understand what is happening in the world.

I sense a lecture coming on...

You as a people have the hardest time understanding how the world can hate you so much. . . By forcing your ideals and values on a country, by means of War, are you not as bad as their previous regime? Fighting communism got old, the western world realized that communism wasn’t evil, it was just different.

You know, my wife grew up under Soviet occupation in Central Europe. I heard quite a lot from older people how they prayed, PRAYED that the U.S. would come and save them when the Soviets invaded in 1968. But we did nothing. And I heard stories about how people prayed, PRAYED that Patton would come to liberate Prague in 1945, and we did nothing and allowed Czech to be slaughtered by the Germans while Stalin took his time arriving.

I live in Miami, a city full of people who came here by boat and plane, leaving their families behind and risking their lives to get away from Fidel Castro. And many of them resent the fact that we never exercised our military might to get rid of that dictator who has turned their country into his own personal asylum.

I read stories from Iraqis every day expressing gratitude for having gotten rid of Saddam. The people of Afghanistan are living in freedom, and indeed U.S. military power has pulled the chestnuts of Western civilization from the fire no less than three times in the last century. All of that has cost us dearly, but we did it because having other people living in freedom and prosperity is in our national interest. But when I hear carping from moral-equivocating morons like you, all I hear is static. It means absolutely nothing, because you are so spoiled by what living in freedom has given you that you don't even appreciate the price of having it. You are like the teenager who bad mouths your dad all week then still insists on having the keys to the car on Friday night.

As for "acceptance and understanding" being better than "war and hate," as Westerners we do not need to "accept" nor "understand" tyranny, oppression, the torture and murder of people just for expressing their views or failing to wear the correct clothing or worship God in the approved manner. It must be, to us, unacceptable. Once we begin to accept it, we are lost, and our values and our civilization are no longer a beacon of hope in the world.

Daniel S. Robison

Plain and simple.
Sweet statements.

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